WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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(The following does not necessarily represent the truth or the opinions held by the author, or anyone else for that matter.)
I spend a good deal of time in There as many of you can imagine. I find solace in the quite places where the only sounds are the ambient crash of waves against the Tiki shore, or the washes of para-ambient electronica behind the thick atmospheres of Tyr; places where the natural landscape is uncrowded by the blight of chatter and unparalleled banality that I have come to expect from many people.
You have the shallow and uncaring elitist lesbians. The shallow and uncaring elitist There Helpers. You have Jopy. You have the Jopy sympethisers. You have the shallow, uncaring elitist Sky House builders, sitters, watchers, gabbers, idlers. You have the hoverboarders. The explorers. The buggyists. You have the ones that soley dwell on inane banter--new shoes, boyfriend, '''kiss. You have the precious few who care. And then somewhere you have me, the non-entity who is disliked on all levels or otherwise anonymous.
You cannot associate with any clique or you close the doors to another. The paradox is obvious. You cannot be universally loved, especially as no one loves you in any case--the human ego knows no bounds and will never be restrained, and such is the case of all humanity, even in contrived environments, as indicated in the annals of There chat-logs, signs, and crappy little books strewn over the landscape. It is thus evident in the description of every event/non-event, post on each forum, and cry to the heavens/non-heavens.
And so is the premise of the clique system:
You have not explored as much as Person A and therefor you are not nearly as smart as they are.
You have not opened your heart to a gaggle of homosexuals and cried with them and shared in their emotional distraught so you are not nearly as open-minded and tolerant as they are.
You have not won a hoverboarding contest, so you lack manual dexterity and should probably see a physical rehabilitation therepist because of this, as it could be an indication of something more serious.
You have not won a writing contest, so it is plainly obvious that you are either a teenager or incapable of forming complete sentences, perhaps a foreigner.
You do not participate in Peace Rallies and, in as such, you are a warmonger, a bigot, a hateful conservative Republican baby-killer who believes in God.
You don't participate in the shirt diesign contests, therefor you are not very adept at colour coordination.
You do not own a buggy, so you must be a poor person or a member of a minority.
You do not tolerate rudeness, so you are rude.
You are small.
You are weak.
You are anonymous.
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UncleJohn
Members
92
Jan. 2003
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Wow! Great posts like this one could make you very popular 
I have thought about the same things. What worries me is that There will become full of little cliques that are not open to outside communication or interaction. The last thing I want to see are people entering chat groups and getting rejected because they are not an Adept Hamster Trainer or whatever...
Seeing the creation of a new world culture is very interesting to me. So far, they have done an outstanding job creating a world that encourages community. It will be great to see how it evolves.
It is whatever you want it to be WaterSign. Be yourself, be someone else, create a club for club haters, stand back and watch others chat, look for a friend, walk around aimlessly.
What would you change, add or remove from There? Anything?
UJ
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Meret
Members
28
Mar. 2003
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Geez Watersign, that is depressing to read.
I have no clue if this was a opportunity for you to express your thoughts (or someone else's thoughts) or a demonstration of your writing talent, but I do hope it's the latter. I would have to say that is very good description of a person with the "world hates me" syndrome or someone who basically allows themselves to feel inferiour.
I would normally just read this and move on, but I really think your post leaves such a negative and shallow feeling about "There", that I thought I would offer some opposite viewpoints. Which of course is quite amusing for anyone that really knows me, as I am commonly known as "Mr. Negative" 
I find it very interesting in your description of the various interests (or personal lifestyles) that you singled out lesbians, There helpers and skybuilders as shallow, elitist and uncaring, while still implying virtually everyone else that might be having some fun are non-caring people too. This reminds me of the child looking out the window at all the other kids outside playing and deciding that they are all bullies and won't like them, are better players or will call them names, so they hide inside never meeting some fun kids or future friends 20 feet in front of them. While there are lots of rotten, shallow, useless people in the world (and the on-line worlds seems to attract a higher percentage), staying away and judging people from a distance ensures you never find the fun, caring and great to know people of this world.
As for the defeatist attitude on what you call the clique system, let me offer my opinion on your list.
You have not explored as much as Person A and therefor you are not nearly as smart as they are
Actually meeting people that have found and been places I never knew existed just gives me a new task and challenge to go find and see these places. Being the last to get somewhere does hinder the charm and beauty the location offers. Being the first Explorer is a not an objective unless that is what is really driving you. But then, you would be really about bragging rights and not about finding someplace great to share with others.
You have not opened your heart to a gaggle of homosexuals and cried with them and shared in their emotional distraught so you are not nearly as open-minded and tolerant as they are
Well good for them. We don't have to agree or love every persons lifestyle. My motto is I'm polite and respectful of their choices and I expect the same from them. Enough said.
You have not won a hoverboarding contest, so you lack manual dexterity and should probably see a physical rehabilitation therepist because of this, as it could be an indication of something more serious.
Any study of skilled based gaming states that 20% of the population will win 80% of the time. We all have are strengths and weaknesses. Being less proficient at gaming is not something to lose sleep over. As I have personally done, stop judging and setup a beginners course, ask someone how to get better and hang and race with people of your own skill. I wouldn't even dream I could win a race against a sprinter, but I would have fun being in the race.
You have not won a writing contest, so it is plainly obvious that you are either a teenager or incapable of forming complete sentences, perhaps a foreigner.
Again, we all have natural talents, but only judging your worth by letting others judge you is a losing proposition. Entering any contest is nothing more than an opportunity to advertise yourself to others. Even the people that lost any competition I voted on I still appreciated their work and effort as it brought me some fun. Why worry about how I judged you when I didn't even compete?
You do not participate in Peace Rallies and, in as such, you are a warmonger, a bigot, a hateful conservative Republican baby-killer who believes in God.
Ah the joys of the people with a cause. Love or hate them, agree or disagree, we all don't see things the same way so either join them, oppose them or stay out of the argument, but make your own choice. (hmmm, a run-on sentence, can't tell).
You don't participate in the shirt diesign contests, therefor you are not very adept at colour coordination.
Ah, another natural talent. I've toyed with it, but it's just something I will be very good at. On the other hand, the talent and creativity people have brought to "There" is amazing. I am quite happy to drop in to see and praise their efforts and look for more clothing that fits my boring style (Jeans and a bowling shirt is just my speed) or something that a friend would like. Look at it this way, "There" has brought new meaning to the term "Artificial breasts" since a few designers have drawn them in
You do not own a buggy, so you must be a poor person or a member of a minority
WHAT! You don't own a buggy, my god! Hey want to borrow mine. Anytime. Buggies suck anyways
You do not tolerate rudeness, so you are rude.
I don't tolerate rudeness. I won't waste my time starting an argument over it. I make some polite comment about it and if they continue, well that's another person not to waste my time on. And off I go somewhere else. No loss to me if that person has no social skills. They just lost an opportunity to get to know me. Their loss, not mine.
You are small
And your point is? Buy a rock and stand on it
You are weak
Hmmm, is there arm-wrestling contests in There now?
You are anonymous
Thank god for some things. Actually being anonymous can be a good and bad thing. It allows you to brush by the trouble-makers of the world but allows many more shy people to give something a try. I am anonymous to most people in "There", but there are a few now that know who I am, what I do and even where I live. I have the freedom to make that choice when and if it makes sense. Being anonymous does not prevent interesting conversation, in-depth discussions or making some great new friends. It just protects you while you find people with similar interests and ideas as yourself.
I'm still not sure why I spend all this time writing a reply, but it was something I felt like doing. So judge as you wish, but I know who I am, what my strengths and weaknesses are and if you like me, then great, if not, oh well, please don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You know that sitting by the ocean, listening to the waves crash into the shore is an excellent time to reflect on your achievements, special memories and future dreams. Your wasting it's beauty if you only use it to think destructively.
Meret
P.S. You really don't own a buddy! Like my god!, doesn't everyone have like 3. (just kidding)
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Ariadne
Members
467
Feb. 2003
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LMAO Meret!! That was pretty funny....actually I do have a buggy but hardly ever use it, I have offered WaterSign the use of mine but he declined  they do pretty much suck, hoverboards are waaay better! "Cake or Death?" ~ Eddie Izzard
Come join my There yahoo group! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThereMeetingPlace
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Melora
Members
130
Feb. 2003
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Mar. 24 2003, 4:43 am |
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Its great you brought this up because I am really really pissed off due to something I experienced tonight.
Ok a message came up inviting me to an event. I won't mention the name of the event or the persons involved because perhaps maybe it wasn't intentional as it appeared but nevertheless it did hurt my feelings somewhat as it was my first experience with rudeness on There.
So I go to the event and there are some people around. I say HI.
Nobody responds. I try again....and nobody responds. I then realize that this event appeared primarily as a gathering for people who apparently know each other very well and I am an outsider.
Feeling very uncomfortable as well as a little sad, I left.
I guess my avatar wasn't dressed up enough or perhaps my skill levels weren't up to par for people to even acknowledge my presence.
Now I will give the benefit of the doubt and consider the fact that
most could have been distracted but nevertheless, would it kill somebody to post a Hi back???
I'm not asking for the moon here. I always try to say Hi whatever I'm doing. Crystalshard may not remember this, but once we passed eachother on our boards several weeks ago and we both said Hi and went on our merry way. I've said Hi to alot of the posters here and even had some nice conversations as well.
So this experience really shocked me.
What I am trying to get at, is if you're in an exclusive group please stress that when you hold events are gatherings.
This was the first time I have ever felt this uncomfortable and scutinized at a There event and it wasn't a nice feeling.
And I am sorry I missed the event that I was e-mailed an invite to, but There Mail sent it to me too late.
Sorry for venting, but this was very upsetting.
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aqualoco
Members
147
Feb. 2003
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Hmmm, yeah that sux that you feel you do not fit neatly into a group in there watersign. It sux when a group or subculture or "scene" you want to be a part of rejects you. We are still in the beta phase of there but already many things have changed and many social groups are forming.
I know of the prescence of elitist type attitudes and circles within this online community. They are a double edged sword as, in my eyes anyway, have both a postive and negative effect. The positive would be the people who take there VERY seriously. You know the ones i talk of, be it the person who stays way after testing hours, the designer who puts out an insane amount of submissions or even the person trying to be the highest ranked in a skill. These people may add to the community with their contributions, such as designing more things for all of us to use. They may even help others who never even touched photoshop give a couple of submissions to there. These people make there look attractive and are enthusiastic about it.
Now onto the negative. I can see why may be very intimidating to someone new to there, ecspecially with those who havn't played online games and/or mmorpg's. (And before someone comes out of the woodwork to say that there is neither, save your breath as i dont feel like having that argument, heh.) I try to help newbies when i get asked a question to the best of my ability. But i can see how it is offputting to comprehend there and asking basic questions and getting negative responsives. People saying "I hate newbies" and generally giving them hard time on the simple fact that they are new is a bullcrap elitist attitude to have. I mean do you remember when you were new? I have noticed all the particular attitudes people have that watersign has mentioned and more. I have noticed the ass kissing of popular avatars.
I get his point that since he is not the best in any given aspect in there, that he is ignored and shunned. Well, that is the nature of the internet at large. I have been in many bulleten boards, chats and online games. I know the mentality that can run through these. A couple people might dominate a board and gain popularity, anyone new is treated with disdain and those of different opinions are shouted down and insulted. Not to mention all the usual suspects of Internet stereotypes; the spelling/grammer nazis, the holier than though PC people, the l33t speek d00des, griefers, etc. Not all boards are this way, but i noticed enough of them to notice a pattern.
My advice to you watersign? Either strive harder to become better at a particular element in there and gain recognition that way. Or just try to have a circle of people you enjoy hanging around with. I dont think you are complety alone in there to people you can relate to. Help out some newbies, you can gain some buddy's that way.
I dunno, i didn't want this to a rant on how to make friends. Seeing as how i'm probably one of the most anti-social people on the planet in rl. Just wanted to throw my 3 cents in. And if all else fails start a club, people are sheep and like to kiss the ass of any leader.:p I was playing a female avatar in there, before it was cool.
Sworn to fun, loyal to none.
MMORPG= Many Men Role Playing Girls
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WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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Wow, some great replies to this one. (c; Thanks all, for taking the time to read my little rant. Things like that I just write as a part of my fiercely negative side that refuses to see the positives on anything. I'm am really not so bitter and cynical. Really, what I've written here was just to kind of be a voice for some of the feelings that I know a lot of people feel. In fact some of it is entirely not true... I have won a writing competition. LOL!
I feel bad, looking back at it, that it almost appears that I am grouping all lesbians into a "shallow and elitist" category, when in actuality, the percentage is much smaller. Same goes for any of the cliques mentioned truly. (c; Didn't really want to offend anyone, just wanted to get my word and my work out. Thanks for reading! love you all!
WaterSign
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Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
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And now a response from one of the most popular avatars in There (just kidding - I'm not all that!
There are jerks in There who are jerks to anyone not in their immediate circle of friends. They are just as rude to you as they are to me.
You seem to find the fringe players and react to them rather than jump into events, convos, etc. and find the real people. I like the advice to help out newbies the best. Get to them while they are still real people and have not been absorbed into one of the There cults! Hell start your own There cult for jaded, cynical people called "Go F Yourself Fanboy".
I am popular in There not because I've done any of the accomplishments you've listed, but rather despite the fact that I haven't done any of them.
I haven't won any big races, I've only done one design and that I had help with from my fiance, I haven't won and writing, trivia, poetry, or comedy contests either.
I avoid certain other popular people because they have shown themselves to be mean little spiteful bitches and I have no time for petty little losers like that.
I always speak my mind even when it is not the popular opinion. The friends that I have on my buddy list value my honesty and straight forwardness. (over 100 so I'm sure you can find at least 10! I don't sugarcoat anything and when someone is an ass I will call them on it right then and there. Most people will back down once you ask them why they are being mean and everyone is standing there looking at them waiting for an answer.
Yet I am on about 120 buddy lists because I take the time to get to know people, I attend events, I hold a lot of class events teaching newbies how to level their skills or how to host their own events, and I run a pawn shop. At least 20% of my buddies only added me so that they could sell me their stuff later on...but hey, that's what the pawn shop is for!
I just stay true to myself and most people can accept me for the foul-mouthed, opinionated, club leading typo queen that I am, wild mood swings and all. As soon as I go plastic and start caring what the "elitist" types think of me I prey that one of the There_Mafia will take me out back and put a paintgun pellet in my head. I play this game to have fun, not care what the leet people think of me (although many of them aren't at all as stuck up as people assume they are! Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
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Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (Melora @ Mar. 24 2003, 5:43 am) | So I go to the event and there are some people around. I say HI.
Nobody responds. I try again....and nobody responds. I then realize that this event appeared primarily as a gathering for people who apparently know each other very well and I am an outsider. |
Oh that sucks Melora! I hope this wasn't one of my events! I usually greet everyone who is nice enough to come to my events personally. The only exception was my recent There_Mafia mixer. I was so busy handing out raffle tickets that I did not get to mingle for the first 60 minutes!
Anyhow, have you considered the possibility that perhaps your avatar had not loaded completely? I know this past week the servers were VERY laggy and buggy, it took quite a long time for avatars to show up in front of me, even if they summoned me! I had to do one trade completely through IM's because we were in Karuna and even though they summoned me their avie just wasn't showing up on my screen.
Anyway, I hope that was the case in your situation. I certainly hope you weren't shut out on purpose! That would just plain mean! Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
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WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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Thanks Daemona for all the kind words. (c; You truly are a gem from just my limited exposure to you. And I'm sorry you've run into the same types that I have. We'll all have to get together sometime and lament the classist popularity contests underway. I should probably post a big list of people I dislike somewhere in-world. That would piss some people off, but it would be hella fun.
WaterSign
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Melora
Members
130
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (Daemona @ Mar. 24 2003, 2:55 pm) | | Quote (Melora @ Mar. 24 2003, 5:43 am) | So I go to the event and there are some people around. I say HI.
Nobody responds. I try again....and nobody responds. I then realize that this event appeared primarily as a gathering for people who apparently know each other very well and I am an outsider. |
Oh that sucks Melora! I hope this wasn't one of my events! I usually greet everyone who is nice enough to come to my events personally. The only exception was my recent There_Mafia mixer. I was so busy handing out raffle tickets that I did not get to mingle for the first 60 minutes!
Anyhow, have you considered the possibility that perhaps your avatar had not loaded completely? I know this past week the servers were VERY laggy and buggy, it took quite a long time for avatars to show up in front of me, even if they summoned me! I had to do one trade completely through IM's because we were in Karuna and even though they summoned me their avie just wasn't showing up on my screen.
Anyway, I hope that was the case in your situation. I certainly hope you weren't shut out on purpose! That would just plain mean! |
Daemona, I ran into you in Tyr when I was exploring or was it hovering? I forgot. 
You said Hi, I said. We has a brief chat and we went on our merry way. 
Its little elements like that, that make There a fun and friendly experience.
I was recommended your events by several players while discussing my experience.
This was a completely different event and I don't know whether there were technical difficulties or not. I was able to see my avatar and see the others. It was obvious they knew everybody.
I just want people to know that despite this being an online environment, people do have feelings.
If people hold event, they should just stress that its for their group or friends 'only' because this was an extremely unpleasant experience. Good thing, I wasn't a newbie otherwise I would've felt even worse.
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chrisher
Members
31
Feb. 2003
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Mar. 24 2003, 7:13 pm |
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Watersign. I too have come across situations where I have felt like I was maybe intruding or unwelcome. But in all honesty I am the one who is putting myself out there to see who would want to get to know me....
Art imitating life maybe?? Just on a grander scale since we don't normally walk into exsisting conversations in RL and say "Hi!"...rejection sucks too much..
I have found that my greatest relationships in There have been the ones that were unsolicited...the ones that "just happened" ...and I cherish everyone of them. 
I'll talk to anyone. I have no preferences to whom I keep company. If they do.... then it's best we don't continue. And thats fine with me.
Watersign... it's really not worth the effort to waste your time with those who will not give you the time...I'm sure they aren't thinking about it like you are.....
 Take Care......say "Hi" if you see me.....
Chrisher
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sluggo
Members
139
Feb. 2003
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Thanks to both Watersign and Melora for posting in this thread.
I know I have been guilty of not spending enough time with a new person in a group situation, I hope I've never ignored either of you, it wasn't my intention.
The reasons I may not be as friendly as I'd like to a new person joining a group are many fold. I do try to say "Hi, so and so " when someone joins our chat circle, but if I'm talking to someone I know well, sometimes fail to include the new person (again, not intentionally or spitefully). I also never have gotten on too well in big groups, or we get joking about, and I know how it's easy for you to feel left out.
In my case, anyone is welcome to throw an opinion or a joke in, if it were really private, I'd bring it somewhere else as you suggest.
I also talk a heck of a lot, and someone who's feeling a little shy (we all do with strangers to varying degrees don't we?), well they can feel left out or behind.
So I really hope I've never seemed rude to either of you, unintentionally or otherwise, please feel free to jump into a conversation whenever you see me around, I'll try to make a point of paying you guys some attention.  . Just be prepared to keep up with my like 90 wpm typing speed and horrid jokes .
edit: sorry chrisher didn't see your post. Good point about the wandering into a conversation. In life we're all self absorbed or socially akward to even speak to a perfect stranger. Here the rules are somewhat different, but still knowing absolutely nothing about what to talk about with someone is really hard.. .
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WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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Oh, hell, Sluggo. I wouldn't be too concerned. I think the most of the Shallow Elitists would be likely to avoid this thread lest they act guilty. Or perhaps they won't. The posts betray themselves, either way. Sluggo, you're fine by me in my limited time spent with ya'. (c;
WaterSign
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TheSpirit
Members
7
Feb. 2003
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Mel, that wasn't my party, was it?
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Maagic
Members
48
Mar. 2003
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Why don't we all meet up somewhere Wednesday night? I bought a sofa so we'll have a place to sit
well two of us anyway... hehe Maagic
AKA Mollari
www.smallvillefans.com
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Melora
Members
130
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (TheSpirit @ Mar. 25 2003, 2:02 pm) | | Mel, that wasn't my party, was it? |
Oh no, not at all. 
This was a completely different day. I just was sort of sleepy when I finally made it to the party and my allergies were really bothering me so I figured I should leave.
The event I'm talking about was on a Sunday and had less than a dozen people. So don't worry, it wasn't yours.
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Melora
Members
130
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (Maagic @ Mar. 25 2003, 3:22 pm) | Why don't we all meet up somewhere Wednesday night? I bought a sofa so we'll have a place to sit
well two of us anyway... hehe |
If you're ever interested I have a cloud on Saja where I have sofas and a couple of benches. Look for the sign that says
"Cloud 9, Welcome Weary Explorers"
I made it so anyone who wants to, can use it when they want a brief rest from all the acitivities and just sit with their friends and
chat.
So far nothing has been returned to my inventory so hopefully it will still be there Weds. 
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Melora
Members
130
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (sluggo @ Mar. 24 2003, 11:20 pm) | Thanks to both Watersign and Melora for posting in this thread.
I know I have been guilty of not spending enough time with a new person in a group situation, I hope I've never ignored either of you, it wasn't my intention.
The reasons I may not be as friendly as I'd like to a new person joining a group are many fold. I do try to say "Hi, so and so " when someone joins our chat circle, but if I'm talking to someone I know well, sometimes fail to include the new person (again, not intentionally or spitefully). I also never have gotten on too well in big groups, or we get joking about, and I know how it's easy for you to feel left out.
In my case, anyone is welcome to throw an opinion or a joke in, if it were really private, I'd bring it somewhere else as you suggest.
I also talk a heck of a lot, and someone who's feeling a little shy (we all do with strangers to varying degrees don't we?), well they can feel left out or behind.
So I really hope I've never seemed rude to either of you, unintentionally or otherwise, please feel free to jump into a conversation whenever you see me around, I'll try to make a point of paying you guys some attention. . Just be prepared to keep up with my like 90 wpm typing speed and horrid jokes .
edit: sorry chrisher didn't see your post. Good point about the wandering into a conversation. In life we're all self absorbed or socially akward to even speak to a perfect stranger. Here the rules are somewhat different, but still knowing absolutely nothing about what to talk about with someone is really hard.. . |
sluggo it wasn't you.
I don't know if you remember but I had a nice conversation with you and chiasmodus at the boneyard and you showed me your 'peak a boo' pants.
You guys complemented me on the shirt that I made and we had a nice chat on avatar clothing. You guys were extremely nice and welcoming when I asked if I was interrupting.
This was at an event and it just made me decide to be more careful in choosing the events to attend.
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Korba
Members
35
Feb. 2003
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Ack! I know which event this was, Melora, and I'll have a quick chat with the host when I see him again. I was unable to attend the event in question because I was trying to help someone. I'm very sorry to hear that this happened. I can't believe my bestest friend (that would be you, Melora) was ignored; and if that was their intention, then it's their loss.
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Melora
Members
130
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (Korba @ Mar. 25 2003, 6:46 pm) | | Ack! I know which event this was, Melora, and I'll have a quick chat with the host when I see him again. I was unable to attend the event in question because I was trying to help someone. I'm very sorry to hear that this happened. I can't believe my bestest friend (that would be you, Melora) was ignored; and if that was their intention, then it's their loss. |
Thanks Korba! You are the best.
I was planning to discuss this with you either in an e-mail or Weds since you know some of the people involved.
I don't want to bring it up here as this is not the place and I really
don't want to start a flame war or anything because thats just not me.
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Xotti
Members
28
Mar. 2003
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Wow, so many great posts on this topic, I wanna touch on each of them. But i think since so many great things have already been said, I will keep mine short.
I would just like to say, WaterSign, whether you actually feel the way your writing portrays, it was truely beautiful and incitfull. Whether it was negative or not plays nothing in my mind, it was an all round joy to read and I think clearly, we all feel like we can relate to one instance or another.
Daemona: There are jerks in There who are jerks to anyone not in their immediate circle of friends. They are just as rude to you as they are to me.
Very true, I think that should be excepted no matter where you are. Also I would imagine the amount of people like that will grow, once out of Beta, but hey ya never know. Either way, I will ALWAYS give a person the benefit of a doubt and say "HI there!" to them. I will never stay quiet because some of my friends beleive they are too ellite to say Hello.
Branding is the death of a community.
Meret: You had some great comments! Put a whole lighter spin on the topic including some great advice.
Melora: I think I have experienced that in There a hundred times. Ok thats a lil exagerated but its enough to know that its not always technical difficulties. There really are some close knit groups that arent welcoming outsiders. Thats fine if thats what they want to do. I dont think I would want to be in that group anyways because I love to meet new people.
Aqqualoco: You had some great points about what brings positive aspects to the game and what brings negative. Also I agree with your comments on "newbs". That term is used to frequently and for all the wrong reasons. It's what really makes that term an insult when it shouldn't be. There are always NEW things to be learned and therefor no matter how popular you are, you can still be a "newb". Now when talking about "New Player - newbs" they should always be welcomed. Because yes, we were all new players once and we all were wanting to make new friends and discover the great aspects of the game. It should be an HONOR to pass that down to the newest players that are just joining.
"A couple people might dominate a board and gain popularity, anyone new is treated with disdain and those of different opinions are shouted down and insulted. Not to mention all the usual suspects of Internet stereotypes; the spelling/grammer nazis, the holier than though PC people, the l33t speek d00des, griefers, etc."
I just wanted to include that quote because I like what ya said. But even then, its branding and breaking up the community into smaller, closed off peices. I would  to have There be a true community where these stereotypes do not exist...but that has never happened in any civilization and I don't think it will be happening here. But I can always remain hopefull.
Anyways, lame advice : Play nice? lol Say Hello to people that you invite into your home??? Well no matter what advice is givin here, doesn't give anyone an incintive to actually "play nice". I just hope There can make it through all the petty highschool "Cheerleader vs Ugly girl" B.S. and remain a friendly community. But that can't happen unless people make some simple efforts to open up and say "Hi".
(ask sorry, said i was gonna make it a short post....welp, I didn't Oh and...Heylo Everyone! † *~~* §-• Xotti •-§ *~~* †
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Xotti
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Mar. 2003
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Wow, so many great posts on this topic, I wanna touch on each of them. But i think since so many great things have already been said, I will keep mine short.
I would just like to say, WaterSign, whether you actually feel the way your writing portrays, it was truely beautiful and incitfull. Whether it was negative or not plays nothing in my mind, it was an all round joy to read and I think clearly, we all feel like we can relate to one instance or another.
Daemona: There are jerks in There who are jerks to anyone not in their immediate circle of friends. They are just as rude to you as they are to me.
Very true, I think that should be excepted no matter where you are. Also I would imagine the amount of people like that will grow, once out of Beta, but hey ya never know. Either way, I will ALWAYS give a person the benefit of a doubt and say "HI there!" to them. I will never stay quiet because some of my friends beleive they are too ellite to say Hello.
Branding is the death of a community.
Meret: You had some great comments! Put a whole lighter spin on the topic including some great advice.
Melora: I think I have experienced that in There a hundred times. Ok thats a lil exagerated but its enough to know that its not always technical difficulties. There really are some close knit groups that arent welcoming outsiders. Thats fine if thats what they want to do. I dont think I would want to be in that group anyways because I love to meet new people.
Aqqualoco: You had some great points about what brings positive aspects to the game and what brings negative. Also I agree with your comments on "newbs". That term is used to frequently and for all the wrong reasons. It's what really makes that term an insult when it shouldn't be. There are always NEW things to be learned and therefor no matter how popular you are, you can still be a "newb". Now when talking about "New Player - newbs" they should always be welcomed. Because yes, we were all new players once and we all were wanting to make new friends and discover the great aspects of the game. It should be an HONOR to pass that down to the newest players that are just joining.
"A couple people might dominate a board and gain popularity, anyone new is treated with disdain and those of different opinions are shouted down and insulted. Not to mention all the usual suspects of Internet stereotypes; the spelling/grammer nazis, the holier than though PC people, the l33t speek d00des, griefers, etc."
I just wanted to include that quote because I like what ya said. But even then, its branding and breaking up the community into smaller, closed off peices. I would to have There be a true community where these stereotypes do not exist...but that has never happened in any civilization and I don't think it will be happening here. But I can always remain hopefull.
Anyways, lame advice : Play nice? lol Say Hello to people that you invite into your home??? Well no matter what advice is givin here, doesn't give anyone an incintive to actually "play nice". I just hope There can make it through all the petty highschool "Cheerleader vs Ugly girl" B.S. and remain a friendly community. But that can't happen unless people make some simple efforts to open up and say "Hi".
(ask sorry, said i was gonna make it a short post....welp, I didn't Oh and...Heylo Everyone! † *~~* §-• Xotti •-§ *~~* †
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Xotti
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Oh crap, didnt mean to post twice! SORRY!!!
 † *~~* §-• Xotti •-§ *~~* †
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Phedre
Members
121
Jan. 2003
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Xotti, you said this time, as it has been said before on different threads here and the forums - what some of us hope for is the true community where stereotyping is eliminated. But the very nature of There and it's structure encourages it - clubs for goths, clubs for exploreres, clubs for adept hamster trainers. Communities are formed because people forming them have something in common with one another, it gives creedence to their beliefs, alleviates the horror of "i'm not alone" and lends a sense of acceptance. Despite our virtual selves we are still human and our nature is not to be singular - an unfortunate social conditioning we cannot escape. However, what we can do in There to make it a place that perhaps has a semblance of this uptopian idea is to practice tolerance, respect and balance.
This is what spoke to me in Watersign's elloquent writing. I believe he was speaking to the avatar in all of us that demands and deserves the respect of others because we are different, do belong to clubs and have found groups we bond with. So long as we do that with respect for one another we are halfway there.
Miss P
:::make me your sin::: Miss P
:::make me your sin:::
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Techzen
Members
280
Feb. 2003
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Watersign (and all),
Great post. I was going to respond when you first wrote it but my post turned into a novel, so i deleted it. Then I tried to post a few hours ago but the forum kept gining me errors. I have three things I want to say.
1) You (watersign) once approached me just as I spawned into K plaza weeks ago. You said "HI" and I didn't respond. I have felt bad about this ever since then. My new wireless keyboard' | | | |
