CrystalShard
Members
380
Feb. 2003
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I noticed that several people like to refer to There as a game, but frankly I dont think its the correct description. If anything, it would be what I like to call a "Networked VR".
There is a 3D multiuser interactive enviroment, where its users can perform various actions that include chatting and interacting with objects in the world. Some of the objects are there for gaming, some are there for other, different purposes.
In general, a game is an enviroment that is dedicated for gaming. You login, play, and possibly also do other things on the side (like interacting with other players), however these other things are always "dwarfed" in comparison of the larger goal which is to get on with it and play.
There's empassis is more on the social structure rather then the gameplay. Its almost tempting to call There a "3D Chat", however There is capable of much more then just chatting. Its game abilities are strong enough to not be dwarfed by the chatting, as is the case with Active Worlds.
For conclusion, what we have here is a system that incorporates a 3D enviroment, script-able objects, and that can accept bots that which control avatars, and possibily in the future - also affect their surroundings. It allows chatting, gaming, and is extendible to a degree that allows it to accept new aspects in the future if needed.
'There' is not a game.
'There' is a true, extendible, networked 3D enviroment system - A Networked VR... Just without the fancy VR hardware we're used to see in the movies. Still, it fits perfectly in the definition.
Just my bit of opinion. I think i'll go auction this soap box now. 
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sluggo
Members
139
Feb. 2003
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But what is it.. we don't have a word for it yet, and one existing word encompasses much of what it is..  . That word being game. You can't call it chatting, because you can't drive buggies in chat, you can spend hours in there without talking to a soul.. never done that on IRC myself.
I agree with what you're getting at, but it's close enough to say game, until we work out a better term for virtual online universe thingy, which is awkward at best.
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CrystalShard
Members
380
Feb. 2003
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I still dont think calling it a game is the right thing to do, since thats almost ignoring this program's capacity. Its almost like calling Adobe Atmosphere a game.
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LoneStranger
Members
7
Feb. 2003
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It's an OLIVE.
On-Line Interactive Virtual Environment.
LS £§
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Squeaker
Members
192
Feb. 2003
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I don't mind the users who refer to There as a game due to the lack of a better way to refer to it as... what drives me bonkers are the users who think of There in the same was as a MMORPG!!!!
I do have to say that "OLIVE" is the best idea so far though  "The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. Thoughts are not etched on the inside of skills, to be perused by any invader. The mind is a complex and many-layered thing, Potter - or at least, most minds are."
-Severus Snape
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WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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Yeah! Olive works! I am not going to nitpick as to whether it's a game... game's are played to have fun and that's the best I can describe my experience in There. So, it's a game, but not--it's more, for sure.
WaterSign
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CrystalShard
Members
380
Feb. 2003
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Isnt that exactly like the NVR I mentioned previously? 
I guess it depends on your taste of acronyms.
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WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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Yeah. I think it does... Olive just sounds sooo... soo... Hell I don't know. Sexy?
WaterSign
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Squeaker
Members
192
Feb. 2003
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Olive just rolls off the tounge better than NVR.  "The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. Thoughts are not etched on the inside of skills, to be perused by any invader. The mind is a complex and many-layered thing, Potter - or at least, most minds are."
-Severus Snape
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sluggo
Members
139
Feb. 2003
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I'm still waiting for the dragons 
(kidding) OLIVE, I like that.. heh, now if we could just find a meaning for pickle, we'd have sooooo many bad puns
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Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
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I agree that OLIVE does seem to encompass everything there is about. However I do play it as a game. I do focus on raising my skills (I want to be in the top 10 for fashionista so bad and I couldn't even tell you why!
It doesn't bother me that other ppl want to use this as a chat room, but it DOES bother me when I slip and call it a game in-game and I get snapped at for it. You call it what you will and I'll call it what I will. I didn't login to argue over what to call the darn thing.
But I view it and use it as a game. I compete against others users to raise my buggy stats. I compete against other users to beat them into the top 10 in my chosen skill field. I also spend a lot of time standing around chatting and making friends. I don't even do that in IRC. I guess that is why I view my avatar as a character that I created in a game and why I choose to ROLE PLAY her as a fashionista. I'm not a fashionista irl at all, so I thought it would be fun to try in there. Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
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AmThere.com
Members
38
April 2003
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Why is calling it a game so bad?  Sometimes I see it as a game and sometimes I don’t. Maybe it’s a new level in gaming instead of something different, or a whole bunch of games mixed with chatting, and a dash of exploring all rolled into one.
As for OLIVE, it’s cool.  
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The_White_Light
Members
1111
Mar. 2003
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Yeah I refer to it as a game, just because there's nothing else to call it right now. I'll call it an olive when that catches on a bit more... There Catalog
Art
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Sunni
Members
12
April 2003
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I think I know where the missing puzzle is... if you read the company info on the there site it says this...
| Quote | | In 1998, Will Harvey, a Stanford computer science PhD and successful game developer, began working with Jeffrey Ventrella, an expert on artificial life from MIT's Media Lab, on developing a next-generation "metaverse." |
There! They said it...they called There a "Metaverse" 'tada
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NiggahPlz
Members
24
Mar. 2003
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I'd hesitate to call it VR only because it isnt "real" enough.
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Sunni
Members
12
April 2003
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weell I hate to quibble over semantics but doesnt the word "virtual reality" a bit of an oxymoron in itself? The word virtual means almost, in essense but not factually...so any virtual world that is described as VR really won't be real (to the sense) ...
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NiggahPlz
Members
24
Mar. 2003
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| Quote (Sunni @ April 22 2003,6:32) | | weell I hate to quibble over semantics but doesnt the word "virtual reality" a bit of an oxymoron in itself? The word virtual means almost, in essense but not factually...so any virtual world that is described as VR really won't be real (to the sense) ... |
Hence, why I said "enough."
IMO, virtual reality requires a lot more than a keyboard, mouse, and monitor (things such as a vr headset and "power glove" type glove would be a start.) And the interaction with the environment isn't nearly enough either.
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Sumox
Members
579
April 2003
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Well all I have to say is OLIVE is a cool word!  
Sumox
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NiggahPlz
Members
24
Mar. 2003
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| Quote (Sumox @ April 22 2003,7:36) | | Well all I have to say is OLIVE is a cool word! |
i agree, spliff's cats love olives too. it's like crack to them.
at least one of his cat's does, anyway.
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AmThere.com
Members
38
April 2003
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ouch, thats not nice
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UnkleBob
Members
317
April 2003
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Olive sounds like a winner to me. Catchy and still an acronym of something meaningful and to the point.
Did you come up with that yourself?
If so,  Unklebob "un-kull-BOB" : More sexiness than you can shake a stick at.
Wow, those tattoos are soo Unklebob.
(from www.urbandictionary.com )
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Bakker
Members
1
May 2003
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You know, "metaverse" is a good word for it. It was coined by Neal Stephenson in his cyberpunk novel, "Snow Crash". His "metaverse" (compressed from the greek "an universe inside another") was also not a game, but a virtual entertainment environment (IRC meets VR) with some special features, like the ability to sword fight  (hoverboarding anyone ?) [B]aKkeR
Undernet #rio-preto
There wannabe beta tester
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TruSoulja
Members
59
Feb. 2003
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It's much easier and thought-free for me to say game than it is to say Networked VR/NVR or OLIVE.
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Techzen
Members
280
Feb. 2003
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Game = An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime
Like it or not There is a game. It may not be the best way to describe it, but it is one.
< http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=game > 
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Squeaker
Members
192
Feb. 2003
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But Techzen, a game technically has a beginning, middle and end. You have an objective.
There doesn't have that.
In the past few years the gaming industry has changed what games actually are which has caused this change of what to call this new generations of pastimes. "The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. Thoughts are not etched on the inside of skills, to be perused by any invader. The mind is a complex and many-layered thing, Potter - or at least, most minds are."
-Severus Snape
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CrystalShard
Members
380
Feb. 2003
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Programming gives me amusement and entertainment. I use do it at my past time. Does it means my compiler is a game? Not quite.
Metaverse is also a good concept, I agree. Not the most accurate, but much more accurate then a game in my opinion.
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Techzen
Members
280
Feb. 2003
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Click the link in my above post. There may not be covered by all 10 definitions for the word "game", but it is a game. No one is wrong in calling it a game. It may be more than just a game in your eyes. But going back to the sub-title of this thread "Nitpicking never killed anyone. (yet)", you can nitpick all you want but it doesn't change the fact that it is a GAME.
Personally I like O.L.I.V.E. as the way to describe it. But if someone calls it a game they are not wrong in doing so. I'm not trying to be mean by pointing this out. Most people correct others who call it a game in a very friendly mannor. But sometimes it gets ugly, and thats not right. They are wrong in doing it.
People get emotional about things they care about. To some, calling There a game, is an insult to There. I'm glad they care about There, but calling it a game is not an insult. As someone once said "Life is a game, enjoy it."
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Ariadne
Members
467
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (Squeaker @ May 07 2003, 10:15 pm) | But Techzen, a game technically has a beginning, middle and end. You have an objective.
There doesn't have that.
In the past few years the gaming industry has changed what games actually are which has caused this change of what to call this new generations of pastimes. |
What about the Sims? That's a game, yet it has no beginning, middle nor end since the player makes their own objectives.
IMHO the best games are the non linear type. There is what we make of it, we can use it purely for chat or play it more like a game, achieving objectives in upping stats. "Cake or Death?" ~ Eddie Izzard
Come join my There yahoo group! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThereMeetingPlace
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CrystalShard
Members
380
Feb. 2003
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If we forget what the system can do for amoment, which was my main reason for not calling it a game, i'd like to point at another problem spot: Socialising. Socialising is There's main goal and I wouldnt quite call it a "game". I can get social to pass the time or learn/share new information, but I do not "play social".
A system like that cant quite be a game, in my opinion.
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Rayce
Members
789
Feb. 2003
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All you have to do is try to race a buggy at a track to discover that There isn't a game. It's a virtual world where people interact. Because without that socializing and interacting there isn't much left. ...just call me Number 2
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Squeaker
Members
192
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (Ariadne @ May 08 2003, 2:34 am) | What about the Sims? That's a game, yet it has no beginning, middle nor end since the player makes their own objectives.
IMHO the best games are the non linear type. There is what we make of it, we can use it purely for chat or play it more like a game, achieving objectives in upping stats. |
The Sims Online is a member of a breed of game that has been out for about 5-6 years called M.M.O.R.G (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game). Same kind of idea as Ultima Online, Everquest or Asheron's Call (and a few other hundred games)
The Sims is one that you did actually catch me on. But it is closer to having a beginning and end then There does. "The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. Thoughts are not etched on the inside of skills, to be perused by any invader. The mind is a complex and many-layered thing, Potter - or at least, most minds are."
-Severus Snape
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Ariadne
Members
467
Feb. 2003
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The Sims 2 will I think, as it will feature Sims that will age from childhood to old age, so the reports I'm reading say Sims Online I played too, but got completely bored with it, there is waaay more to do in There that in TSO which really is a glorified chatroom. What with the vehicles, and paintball, There has more game aspects for me, while TSO was all about sitting watching your sim study and work, which is not my idea of a game!  "Cake or Death?" ~ Eddie Izzard
Come join my There yahoo group! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThereMeetingPlace
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myrmex
Members
101
Mar. 2003
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| Quote | | (kidding) OLIVE, I like that.. heh, now if we could just find a meaning for pickle, we'd have sooooo many bad puns |
Pixelized Interactive Chat and Kick-a$$ Leisure Enviornment
I think that's a good description of There. "Reality is the story I read in my mind, written by my senses."
"I haven't lost my marbles, I just don't keep 'em in the bag!"
"The less a man makes declaritive statements, the less apt he is to appear foolish in retrospect."
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swzine
Members
1
July 2003
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 Its a game you dorks! God forbid we use a simple generic term to describe something that is not real that you play with your friends. What the hell other complex terms do you losers want to make up for something simple? I'm not on my computer, I'm on my virtual reality interactive workstation machine. 
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Static84
Members
138
July 2003
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