Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
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I have heard some of the most repulsive and embarrassing things recently. I have turned my speakers off in utter DISGUST. Plus the fact that my 5 year old son is never more than 5 feet away from me really makes some of the crap that has been coming from people even more intolerable. Do I really want my 5 y/o asking me what the lady is talking about and what the dildo thing is she keeps talking about all the damn time?
Consensual cybering between 2 ppl in a private discreet location is one thing. Walking into Bali Hai where anyone, including teens, can hang out and saying this crap is quite another.
It is time to stand up and say this is not right. You may hate me for posting this, you may think I am trying to stir up trouble. Even if this generates a ton of crap, I only want to make sure that THERE is a safe place for ALL members, including TEENS! I have several teens in my clubs and I would feel that I let them down if they were subjected to some of the stuff we have been hearing lately. There is supposed to be PG-13. That's all I am asking people to keep in mind and follow. Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
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digital_signal_X
Members
348
April 2003
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This is a very difficult problem for two large reasons.
First - There does not have a means of policing TOS violating voice chat outside of the word of other avatars. The only way you could would be to record offensive conversations on your client.
Second - While the TOS states pretty clearly, most people's personal opinion of what constitutes lewd, unsavory, or inappropriate for minors, can vary greatly. So while some might hesitate and remember the TOS before describing in voice what "tossing a salad" means outside of the cooking channel, they might not hesitate to describe the correct application of a condom.
Clearly Thereinc draws the line, and all we can do is try and be receptive to others who request a conversation be curbed if it crosses their own line as well. Being aware of your surroundings and having a sense of propriety is just as important in There as it would be walking around in the real world. 
(Click picture for Club links and Galleries! )
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Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
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Well DSX as you know I am not one to sit idly by and just accept unacceptable behavior. I have contacted There staff and learned that these people CAN have their voice chat privilages suspended or even ended. BUT to go that far, a There staff person has to hear it.
So if you hear something that is OBVIOUSLY not PG-13 IM a helper directly and summon them over to listen in. It is too bad helpers can not "tune in" remotely to a location such as Bali Hai and listen in without their avatar being present.
And no, i do not wish to see anyone kicked out of There or anything like that. I just think it is getting WAY out of hand with a very small percentage of voice chat users. We need to nip it in the bud before it spreads like some skanky venereal disease. Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
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Allyson
Members
112
July 2003
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I don't think it's a good idea for helpers to have the ability to "tune in" remotely.. but I do recognize the problem sexually explicit chat creates.
I think perhaps walking up and reminding these folks that they are in a public place and that children are quite possibly around would/should be enough to make them at least create an invite only "private" event. There is no reason to carry it on publicly. I hope they would be respectful enough to move it along -- and if not, then one could always contact There to see what can be done.
I'm glad you brought this up... hopefully people who are guilty of doing this will think twice before bringing up a graphic topic in mixed company. It's all about personal responsibility. "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell
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Rick_Slick
Members
330
Sep. 2003
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 Love ya Dae, but unless your teens are homeschooled, you do know they're most likely subjected to the same potty-mouth language at school by that age, right?
I mean, yeah, being vulgar and swearing or talking about peepees every other word in a public place (which, mind you, is difficult... I've tried and it really just doesn't make any coherent sense and everyone just sort of stands there and looks at you all like WTF???) isn't necessary or responsible, but let's be realistic here.  People come to There to escape their real-life responsibilities and all the rules and the limitations society places on us... so it's bound to happen. I agree that simple reminders or the ignore function should work quite well. Rick Slick
Check out the NEW LOW PRICES at Slick Threads, Inc. or visit the Silent Ambush Website
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." - John Wayne
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Kevin_McVeigh
Members
107
Aug. 2003
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Daemona, have you ever heard of the ignore function? It's a wonderful thing. If someone is saying something you find offensive, you can turn them off!
I am just so sick of people trying to force everyone to conform to their sense of morality. Tattling to a helper about someone's conversation when you should be the parent and just put them on ignore, really! Next you're going to go down to your local Barnes and Noble and tell them that you can't keep your child from seeing the adult magazine rack, so therefore they must take it down.
NO NO NO. If you don't want you or your child seeing or hearing something, then you don't have to look or listen. There has given you the tools to cut off offensive input. But do not tell other adults what they can or cannot experience.
Are you telling me that if two women were in the department store discussing their latest toys that you would get the store manager and have him listen in on their conversation? Or would you go over to the women and tell them that you didn't want your 5 year old hearing about it? Or would you just walk away?
Using ignore is a mature way to deal with people who are discussing things you find offensive. To try and police their behavior is just just being a control freak. Kevin McVeigh
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Melora
Members
130
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (Daemona @ Sep. 30 2003, 8:55 pm) | I have heard some of the most repulsive and embarrassing things recently. I have turned my speakers off in utter DISGUST. Plus the fact that my 5 year old son is never more than 5 feet away from me really makes some of the crap that has been coming from people even more intolerable. Do I really want my 5 y/o asking me what the lady is talking about and what the dildo thing is she keeps talking about all the damn time?
Consensual cybering between 2 ppl in a private discreet location is one thing. Walking into Bali Hai where anyone, including teens, can hang out and saying this crap is quite another.
It is time to stand up and say this is not right. You may hate me for posting this, you may think I am trying to stir up trouble. Even if this generates a ton of crap, I only want to make sure that THERE is a safe place for ALL members, including TEENS! I have several teens in my clubs and I would feel that I let them down if they were subjected to some of the stuff we have been hearing lately. There is supposed to be PG-13. That's all I am asking people to keep in mind and follow. |
I've had a few experiences myself so I understand what you're saying.
Awhile back I did some research, theres an actual adult virtual world site called Seducity and its a place where anything goes.
So now I usally tell the male avatars that have approached me to try that site as it will likely suit their needs as There wasn't designed for the purpose of being only an adult world.
I really believe THERE needs an over 18 island so people can have a venue for adult oriented entertainment because I don't believe they should be banned. WHat people do is their business.
What I wish is people would use common sense and think about how their behavior could affect the younger set.
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Elliott_Beazley
Members
379
Sep. 2003
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I think it's best for avatars to verbally or visually express these subjects in There Public Areas as they would in real life in public areas. There really isn't a difference...but then again there are people in Real Life who do that...you can't really tell them to shutup ..just leave. I am a teen myself, i hear these subjects brought up sometimes, i dont really have an opinion, but, I dont think the age of the people is an issue...i think the issue is what you are talking about with people.???
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Lynn Minmei
Members
384
Mar. 2003
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Doesn't the There agreement state that you need to be 18 or over to play? If so, then shouldn't you be the one to not let your kids around while you're in There if you think adult stuff is going on? I don't want to get into a big argument or anything but you're pointing the blame finger at There when you're the one that needs to act. Ignore, go somewhere else or tell the kids to go play somewhere else. "Life is only what we choose to make it, let's just take it, let us be free...
We can find the glory we all dream of... and with our love... we can win"
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Melora
Members
130
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (Kevin_McVeigh @ Sep. 30 2003, 9:53 pm) | Daemona, have you ever heard of the ignore function? It's a wonderful thing. If someone is saying something you find offensive, you can turn them off!
I am just so sick of people trying to force everyone to conform to their sense of morality. Tattling to a helper about someone's conversation when you should be the parent and just put them on ignore, really! Next you're going to go down to your local Barnes and Noble and tell them that you can't keep your child from seeing the adult magazine rack, so therefore they must take it down.
NO NO NO. If you don't want you or your child seeing or hearing something, then you don't have to look or listen. There has given you the tools to cut off offensive input. But do not tell other adults what they can or cannot experience.
Are you telling me that if two women were in the department store discussing their latest toys that you would get the store manager and have him listen in on their conversation? Or would you go over to the women and tell them that you didn't want your 5 year old hearing about it? Or would you just walk away?
Using ignore is a mature way to deal with people who are discussing things you find offensive. To try and police their behavior is just just being a control freak. |
Kevin_McVeigh,
Daemona isn't trying to get anyone to change, she's trying
to get people to have a little common sense and try to remember
that There has ALOT of under 18 players and that they should not be forced to hear that adult behavior.
And From what I understand, placing people on ignore does not affect voice chat.
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Allyson
Members
112
July 2003
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| Quote (Kevin_McVeigh @ Sep. 30 2003, 8:53 pm) | Daemona, have you ever heard of the ignore function? It's a wonderful thing. If someone is saying something you find offensive, you can turn them off!
I am just so sick of people trying to force everyone to conform to their sense of morality. Tattling to a helper about someone's conversation when you should be the parent and just put them on ignore, really! Next you're going to go down to your local Barnes and Noble and tell them that you can't keep your child from seeing the adult magazine rack, so therefore they must take it down.
NO NO NO. If you don't want you or your child seeing or hearing something, then you don't have to look or listen. There has given you the tools to cut off offensive input. But do not tell other adults what they can or cannot experience.
Are you telling me that if two women were in the department store discussing their latest toys that you would get the store manager and have him listen in on their conversation? Or would you go over to the women and tell them that you didn't want your 5 year old hearing about it? Or would you just walk away?
Using ignore is a mature way to deal with people who are discussing things you find offensive. To try and police their behavior is just just being a control freak. |
I agree.... to a degree.
There is a PG-13 world. Not R, NC-17, or XXX. It's not pushing ones own morality on someone so much as it is telling someone that, hey, I'd appreciate it if you took it somewhere private. That way they can have their conversation in a place where a child is less likely to hear it. Then you're not telling the adult what they can and cannot experience, but only asking them to please take it out of a public area.
Paging a helper or getting There involved should be only used as a last resort. Ideally, I would hope that most problems can be handled person to person. "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell
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Allyson
Members
112
July 2003
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| Quote (Lynn Minmei @ Sep. 30 2003, 9:19 pm) | | Doesn't the There agreement state that you need to be 18 or over to play? If so, then shouldn't you be the one to not let your kids around while you're in There if you think adult stuff is going on? I don't want to get into a big argument or anything but you're pointing the blame finger at There when you're the one that needs to act. Ignore, go somewhere else or tell the kids to go play somewhere else. |
"To be a member, and receive Services you must be at least 18 years old. If you are not 18 years old but you are at least 13 years old, you may still receive Services, but only if your account was created and registered by your parent or guardian."
< http://www.there.com/member_agreement.html > "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell
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Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
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My original point was there is a time and place for everything, and I have no problems with consenting adults getting their freak on over the internet. But if I am standing in a public area with my speakers turned on so that I can converse with newbies I don't want my 5 year old child to overhear some girl telling people how to use a dildo quite graphically.
I do not let my children play There, they are way too young. But my speakers do bring "There" into our living room. And please do not suggest that I wear headphones. That would completely block out my children :P
Again, I am not trying to tell people what they can and can not say in general, just that they need to take their little freak show somewhere private. Not everyone cares to watch or listen. Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
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Kevin_McVeigh
Members
107
Aug. 2003
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Melora, noone is forcing anyone to hear any adult conversations. Whenever we make rules or laws, they tend to be black and white, with no room for gray. I would rather people be expected to use their ignore feature to filter out what they did not want to hear, rather than have There restrict our freedom of speech.
And ignore does block voice as well as bubble text. I have done it before. You see the little squiggly line, but no sound comes through.
Allyson, do you mean to say that (feign shock) we should be reasonable adults?! Oh bright havens, what an idea! I couldn't agree with you more.
Some people wouldn't be comfortable confronting someone like that, which is why I simply fell back to the ignore ability - but yes, if you want to express to someone that their conversation is inappropriate, that's perfectly fine. Just be prepared for their reaction.
The thing that I was objecting to was bringing in the authority figure to force a behavioral compliance. That is just too akin to living in a police state with big brother monitoring your every activity. Kevin McVeigh
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Rick_Slick
Members
330
Sep. 2003
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I don't really want to get all involved in this controversial topic, but I don't feel comfortable being held accountable for someone else's decision to broadcast There to an inappropriate audience. Love you bunches, Daemona... I just feel that the burden is on the parent to shield their children from whatever evils of society they want to protect them from. But I do respect your opinion and I promise I will never talk about dildos in public or private!! *hugs*  Rick Slick
Check out the NEW LOW PRICES at Slick Threads, Inc. or visit the Silent Ambush Website
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." - John Wayne
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Kevin_McVeigh
Members
107
Aug. 2003
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Daemona, I understand where you're coming from, but whether you use your ignore option or call in a helper, you would have had to hear an inappropriate part of the conversation in the first place, thus exposing your children either way.
There is no way to predict what someone might say and no way to filter out what they say in a public area.
I used to play EverQuest, and it had an obscenity filter. Granted, that game did not support speech, but if you didn't want to read obscenities, the game would filter them out. You could read every word a person said except those that were on the filter list. But even that was not perfect. There were tricks to defeating the filter, using spaces, or other symbols in place of letters, etc. And even with the words blocked out, you could still tell what was being said, though a child might not have. I would imagine it would be near impossible to put a filter on speech.
The only way you could attempt to stop offensive speech would be if There had a no-tolerance policy and any reports of inappropriate language resulted in immediate termination of the account. That would tend to prevent people from adult conversations in public areas, but something might still slip through.
So, before you go calling in the authorities, please... feel free to bring public awareness of this topic - it might make people think twice - but let people know if their conversation is offensive. If they aren't willing to be reasonable, use your ignore. That's what it's there for. Kevin McVeigh
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Nick_Cordone
Members
82
June 2003
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Like it was posted above...There is for those 18 or older...13 and older with parents permission. Now personally I'm not gonna run around talking about dildos on voice chat, and if I was I'd do it somewhere private, but like others have said, we don't really want restrictions on our freedom of speech. You could ignore the person or just walk away, you're not forced to listen to it. When the majority of an online worlds users are adults...and There is about 95% adults...the world is going to take on an adult like setting, whether the world provides "adult actions" or not. I know how There is, I know what goes on and I know what gets said...if I had kids I wouldn't want them around the PC when I was logged in or I'd turn off voice chat. It's the parents responsibility to regulate what their children take in, especially when you KNOW about the potential threat. Just my opinion, im strongly set on things like this. I'm tired of everyone trying to censor our games, music, etc.
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Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
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Ok I will NOT name names as that is not the point of all of this. But the problem I am having with this is coming from ONE avatar. I have been told she clears out entire events with her obscene mouth, Yet she has not stopped. People have her on ignore, leave when she starts up, and yet she keeps on.
And for those such as myself who DO confront the situation she has nothing but obscenities for us too! The party I got summoned to last night was just one example. She started one of her sexual moaning things up, so I told the host that I was sorry, but I didn't come to a party for that kind of action, and my girls and I were going to leave. (I had not even directed my chat to the person doing the VC) All of a sudden she's calling me a b*tch over VC and blah blah blah. Then my long time friend is screaming NO MORE DRAMA! NO DRAMA IN MY HOUSE! And I am standing there going, ok now I'm a drama queen for explaining to my friend why I am about to leave her place. I didn't want my host to think I didn't like her, so I let her know why I was leaving, which only made it worse.
You say we can ignore her. Done that she doesn't seem to get the hint.
You say we can opt to leave. Event after event has been cleared by this gal and still she keeps it up.
You say we can confront the behavior. Well i did and now I am labled a drama queen because of it.
So it seems the only thing really left is reporting it to There since it has gone on unchecked for weeks. Maybe a week without voice chat is what she needs to appreciate the privilage that a There account is.
And Amyjo this has not a damm thing to do with club politics. This is about providing a fun, comfortable chat environment for everyone in There, especially the thousands of Thereians who have not one thing to do with the M clubs. Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
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momacita
Banned
87
Sep. 2003
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Sep. 30 2003, 10:11 pm |
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OMG you are such a drama queen!! The incident you were referring to wasn't even at the Baili Hai. It was in a friends private home and well just as everybody says there is ignore. So use it and stop the whining.
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Troz
Members
1270
July 2003
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While I have to agree that some of the things said are VERY disturbing (think about the 13 y/o who just logged in and heard a group talking about VERY explicit sexual acts), I DO NOT like the idea of Helpers having a remote listening ability. 1984 ring any bells? I'm not one of those people who thinks the gov't is constantly spying on them, but I hate the idea of There Staff even having the option of listening to others when on the other side of There. Just my 50 cents...wait, gimme my 50 cent back! I need it to dry my clothes...stoopit college laundry... 
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Kevin_McVeigh
Members
107
Aug. 2003
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Daemona, if you've put her on ignore, then you can't hear her anymore, can you? So what's the problem? The problem is you're not gonna be satisfied until this individual conforms to your standard of behavior.
That attitude is exactly what I've been saying is wrong. You can't control her behavior, you can only not let it affect you. And if you start demanding that There begin policing our speech, it's going to turn into a wasteland because noone will be able to say anything for fear of getting reported.
Kudos to you, Nick.  I couldn't have said it better. Kevin McVeigh
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Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
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Calling me names does not make your behavior any more appropriate in a PG-13 environment. Why don't you limit your "adult" VC to the adult friends that find it entertaining and leave the rest of us alone?
It isn't about censoring you Moma. It is about providing a safe, welcoming chat environment for all users. I really wish I could have gotten to know you under different circumstances, your friends speak so highly of you! Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
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Troz
Members
1270
July 2003
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I have no problem with people talking dirty...heck, I kid around with people sometimes (nothing horrible ya'll...I'm not a ThereWhore LOL), but those conversations should occur in certain spots, like a private house or in a secluded, empty spot...not in the center of Karuna or in a crowded bar. Innocent ears are EVERYWHERE ya'll, and we don't want There to get a bad rep as a place where children are exposed to nasty nasty ideas!
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momacita
Banned
87
Sep. 2003
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Sep. 30 2003, 10:23 pm |
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Clean the bird crap out of your ears, I have told you and everybody else. I am who I am and I will never change for you or anybody else. And girl you made Bud leave his own house cause you wouldn't drop the drama. So get over yourself and your hang up of me. And also, quit inviting me to your events. I don't want to be in them so don't try.
If you had me on ignore you couldn't have heard me, so quit showing people how much you lie. Gosh have some dignity already.
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Rick_Slick
Members
330
Sep. 2003
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| Quote (Daemona @ Sep. 30 2003, 9:11 pm) | | You say we can ignore her. Done that she doesn't seem to get the hint. |
I guess I'm not really clear on this.
If the person in question is being ignored by all who that person offends with that sort of talk, and if ignore really does take care of voice chat as someone above has confirmed, therefore no one who is offended by that sort of language can hear that person, how exactly does that affect anyone who's offended by it at that point?
Again, I really don't want to take sides or anything... but I firmly believe that ignore (again, if it does take care of voicechat) can easily solve problems like this in There without people being forced to censor themselves.
<- all these effeminate little hearts me I still 'hearts you, Daemona, even if I may disagree with you on this, and I hope you still 'hearts me!! Rick Slick
Check out the NEW LOW PRICES at Slick Threads, Inc. or visit the Silent Ambush Website
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." - John Wayne
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BOINCer
Members
592
Aug. 2003
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| Quote (Nick_Cordone @ Sep. 30 2003, 8:54 pm) | | Like it was posted above...There is for those 18 or older...13 and older with parents permission. Now personally I'm not gonna run around talking about dildos on voice chat, and if I was I'd do it somewhere private, but like others have said, we don't really want restrictions on our freedom of speech. You could ignore the person or just walk away, you're not forced to listen to it. When the majority of an online worlds users are adults...and There is about 95% adults...the world is going to take on an adult like setting, whether the world provides "adult actions" or not. I know how There is, I know what goes on and I know what gets said...if I had kids I wouldn't want them around the PC when I was logged in or I'd turn off voice chat. It's the parents responsibility to regulate what their children take in, especially when you KNOW about the potential threat. Just my opinion, im strongly set on things like this. I'm tired of everyone trying to censor our games, music, etc. |
I agree with Nick! I would never have a child around when I'm in there, unless I was in a buggy or other vehicle that was away from the crowds. I would never go to a private party and let them watch/listen!
Now I see that the complaint is really against one person...so why try to take away everyone's freedom because you have issues with that one person?
My 2 cents, that I borrowed... BOINCer, but you may call me Bo
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momacita
Banned
87
Sep. 2003
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Sep. 30 2003, 10:26 pm |
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Troz hun, it was in a private home. Bud_green's home. He didn't invite her. StunnerBunny did , and he had to leave the house as I did. Cause she was dramatizing the whole place. She ran th owner out of his own home ( a private home) where he invited me before she was ever there.
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momacita
Banned
87
Sep. 2003
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Sep. 30 2003, 10:29 pm |
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oh and btw, this person is me she is talking about. Go figure. huh? Its funny how most women have problems with me. lol oh well. and look , I am still myself so get over it.
Act2 Scene 1
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Allyson
Members
112
July 2003
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lol Moma, I don't know ya, but I doubt I'd have a problem with you.
I just wish the drama could be handled outside of forums... you're both adults, and because of that I think the name-calling and mud slinging could be pushed aside, and instead, handle disagreements civilly. "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell
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