Phedre
Members
121
Jan. 2003
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Just cruise the archived Beta's from last year and the year before, most of those people were on my buddy list, alas I have not seen one of them since. In addition there are many people I met earlier this year who no longer log on.
Sad, but true, There does not yet have the 'stickiness' to maintain most peoples interest. Yes, I am an old timer, by most peoples standards anyway, so why am I still here? To be frank I am not, I do not participate as often as I used to, I take breaks on regular basis, sometimes long ones, sometimes short. Beside the handful of close friends, most of whom I talk to in some form of IM outside There, my main reason for activity is the Developer Program. I have a vested interest to see where that goes.
However, There needs to overcome the boredom most people run into at about the 2 month mark. This is not something new, we have seen it over and over here, the cry " I am Bored" coming from many. Some people get inventive and make new events out of old ones or just plain make up new ones. Yet the capacity to do that will soon run dry with the limited amount of activities/objects we have at our disposal. Bug fixes and improvements, while are eagerly welcomed and greatly appreciated, (and quite frankly expected) do not really address the core issue at hand. The forums are littered with thousands of ideas, yet all we have gotten is yet another variation on how to hover, bigger chatprops, more land, broken auctions, and nothing significantly new to do.
So where is this all going, this restating of observations already known to most. I am going to play the “what if game.” What if we stage a revolution (akin but not exactly like Watersign’s Treesit)? What if we use the budding economy to our advantage? What if designers stop submitting? What if collectors stop buying? What if we spend most of our time educating new users and asking their co-operation? What if we stockpile and pool current resources for the use of the community? Giving/lending those things we already own so no one has to purchase anything and new users never spend their 10K and never buy more T$. Possibly set up a few volunteers who act as the trading grounds for the resources, trading and lending only objects/clothes currently in the world. Most people have more that one board, or buggy or bike etc. Digital_Signal_X has made an art out of making There work without spending a dime of his own money. What if we don’t spend a dime at all, neither US$ nor T$? What if we do this for a week, 6 weeks or more?
Ok, devil’s advocate: The fairness of this request/challenge could be called into question as There scrambles to get this product ready for a September launch. Should we Beta users turn the tables at this point? I would argue that revolution never comes at the opportune time nor can it be scheduled. We all want There to be a success because we all find some part of it compelling to some degree (even though we are as bored as all heck! ) or we would not be here. But do we want it to be successful for 6 months or for years to come? The success of any product’s longevity lays in the ability to address the core issues. In light of the rate of people turn over and the many posts in these forums, I do not believe There has been able to do this. Can There address these issues when they are running full tilt trying to acquire and support ~50K users? Perhaps in time, but will there be anyone to enjoy it when it/if it happens? We, the people, are what makes There. We have a power and possibility in our hands. What if we use it?
The big questions: How badly do you want to change There? And. Would you, could you bring yourself to join a revolution?
But perhaps most importantly: Would There listen?
Miss P Miss P
:::make me your sin:::
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Balieyes
Members
37
April 2003
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very good points there Phedre, I've been talking with my pal Jaquelynn these last few weeks about holding a no-clothes protest for therians for the obvious price hikes with all aspects in our land of 'there (designers fees,rent you name it) we just are still looking for a palce where we can hold 100+ people in one area, the parties we throw at our place in the span of 4 hours draws an easy 100 anyways, but getting an entire amount of us in one area is the challange for a rally/protest, so if anyone wants too coordinate an event later this month, please contact me, or drop by our place at the groovyness club, we are always partying there, but we will have a rally, the first of many too come, you can count on it.  lets get it in motion!
peace!
~Balieyes
[Ball-E-Eyes]
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WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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Wopnderful idea, Phedre. I also appreciate the kudos. Still, I should point out that no one cared about my tree-sit even though it lasted over a month. LOL! If you can get a comprehensive plan put together, I would be more than willing to consider joining. *snargs*
WaterSign
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mike_sherov
Members
29
June 2003
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Phedre, while I haven't been in There long enough to know your troubles, I see the same type of message all over the place, even back a few months ago when I first started reading There forums. That is why I proposed an alternate auction site... read my post. We, as beta testers, who want to see this program succeed (due to sweeping changes that would improve There, not by such marketing miracle), have a responsibility to speak for the public. Not only do we have to point out technical errors, but flaws in game set-up. We are the test market. We have to show them now that not only will we protest rising auction costs, we will do something about it. Not only will we protest the inability of servers to mass quantities of us, we will do something about it... what exactly to do about that? I dunno? A no-clothes rally? Perhaps, whatever it takes. I say we do this. If at the very least, ThereINC does nothing, at least we will have proven our suspicions... they have everything to lose, we have none. *The True Answer is that there is none*
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tempest
Members
154
Mar. 2003
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To be honest, I'm pretty cynical about ThereInc.
They are pretty quiet about their plans even for the next month – and given the number and type of changes they’re making to the system I get the feeling either they’re making it up as they go along or are deliberately keeping their test subjects in the dark or both.
There is already (ok always has been) a fairly strong sharing and gifting tendency in There amongst the test subjects so I don’t think there’s much we could do as a group in that regard.
Pull everything from the auctions? – maybe, if enough of the really good developers joined.
My opinion –
Are ThereInc really listening to us? - Probably not.
Would ThereInc really care if I threw a hissy fit and left – probably not – they have their own agenda and spin to roughly paper over the cracks.
Is There looking to minimise player churn or are they intending to treat the first year or so worth of players as a succession of crops while they continue to develop the potential of There for other applications -
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SmokeTheFly
Members
79
June 2003
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lol,we are all there inc salesmen...
its what you say out there that matters most.
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Rayce
Members
789
Feb. 2003
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| Quote (tempest @ July 05 2003, 8:03 am) | | Is There looking to minimise player churn or are they intending to treat the first year or so worth of players as a succession of crops while they continue to develop the potential of There for other applications - |
Tempest I'm thinking this way as well. I figure that they don't even need to retain people, it probably makes more sense for them to have people stay for only two months, spend $100 RL or so to get Tbucks and then get tired of it and leave, but since they spent RL they won't cancel their monthly payments for a little while to keep their avatar. This model seems to make There the maximum profits with the least server load.
By bundling there with the ATI videocards and other items you maximize the successive crops of people that you will bring in time and again as new waves come and pay old waves fade. That would seem to be the idea.
A really cynical person might even say that it is not There Inc's business to retain people for any length of time because after a while the average player will have so many clothes and items that they won't need to "buy" anything else. If There makes the world interesting enough to originally get people to buy all the vehicles and clothing etc, but not interesting enough for them to stick around after a few months and increase server load then they would be in big business. Especially since their servers can't seem to handle too many people anyway. ...just call me Number 2
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digital_signal_X
Members
348
April 2003
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Rayce, your post is superb, and highlights an entire school of thought in the gaming community. Retention and Turnover.
I truly believe, and this is entirely a supposition based on the interactions I've had with There staff, Forums, and various other community conversations, that Thereinc's founders and vision was based on a retention model. Not the quickly revolving door of roll over. Why else would they have labored so incredibly hard for 5 years to "get it right" ?
To that end, they have failed as wave upon wave of newbies join the beta test, and experienced players leave due to boredom. As a public release approaches, and disaster looms, Phedre's revolution attempts to slow this pattern. In order for there to become successful, a solid core of steady users *must* be retained.
While new people, and the loss of old people, is an unstoppable force, slowing it some by adding more activities and providing the fundamental points she's addressed provides a priceless resource to there as a profitable company.
How many of us have looked at a personal information guide to there? Mystic_rhythm's, Freddie's, randra's or MB's sites for example? How many of us have learned something from Pb1 or Pb2 players about how there works while standing around in world? Every single one of us. Else you wouldn't be reading these forums.
These sites and more represent an amazingly valuable resource to new people. But even these artifacts left behind won't touch value of having real live people in-world showing newbies the ropes. People who aren't being paid by there, people who are simply citizens.
It's not just post after post of "how do I make money." or "how do I make clothes" or "is this a new thing I've found" that we're sparing. We're saving ourselves folks. We're making there a better community. It's There's future, and your own. Don't let them turn it into a flash in the pants experiment bundled with a bunch of other titles in a super-saver pack that someday you might say "oh yeah, I tried that" When cruising the bargain bin.
By letting their own failures to assert themselves continue unchecked, We will have just another AOL coaster cd for all essential purposes as we move on to other titles that have found the balance between retention and turnover. 
(Click picture for Club links and Galleries! )
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Rayce
Members
789
Feb. 2003
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Thanks DSX, and you make good points as well. The new "greeters" trouble me greatly because they would fill the void that you account to the heart/core of There citizens who could help the new people. There truely becomes a money machine once they get a good pattern of turn over going on and have "jobs" asigned to a few people as "greeters" to help the new people enjoy there, who will eventually become tired of it and quit after they've put in their money. The Greeters paid in therebux wouldn't be too numerous. Enough to keep the new people happy as they explore the world for a while and answer their questions. Then wave after wave come in and eventually leave while the greeters welcome all the new people and encourge them to explore for which most will eventually buy vehicles or socialize and buy clothing.
This would mean that other than greeters there doesn't need longtime avatars. You mention that sites such as this and others help There greatly. This is very true. But imagine all those enthusiastic waves of people setting up their own websites. They eventually get tired and leave, but their websites stay up like cybermages for example and many others. These sites would encourage people to try there, and I predict that if this keeps up, in a year if you do a search for there sites you will find many of them all with little to moderate content and most will have not been updated for a while.
(I'm just basing all this on a logical economic standpoint) Eventually the waves of people die down in a few years, and only then it would be in There's economic interest to retain people. ...just call me Number 2
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fs454
Members
150
April 2003
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I dont have time to read the whole thing but i saw "How badly do you want to change There?"
very badly. I would like it if it was reverted back to PB2, with just bikes and freestyles added. No flying lag pools.....err Hoverboats.
I want the auto retrieve and Sign limit to be taken away for good..."reduce in world clutter" my ass. more like "reduce in world fun".
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SmokeTheFly
Members
79
June 2003
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I have to disagree there,I dont really want some rich twit buying all the signs and then trying to get some sublime message thing going on,maybe coca-cola can monopolise on such advertising but pls not in there.
i heard that some guy has bought all the remaing signs,he has like 100s,well...if when I switch him on ignore, which will evidently be the time i see his first set of mind numbing crap signs.pls make the signs disappear too.
then u can still sell as many signs as u wish because the spam is still selective and no longer in your face.
ppl are very freindly,but so was the garden of eden.
I just want to keep my account going to watch how interaction develops as time goes by.people have still not opened up yet in there and that is why everyone is sooo fab.
its easy to play a character but to hold it?
lol
I think its great that I meet so many women on there,in the forum where i chat we have like two or three,this to me just feels so much better.
only the gays could be satisfied chatting to men all day, rofl and in there the gays always seem to be crowded by women,lol.
i still cant work that one out.
there are guys out there who are in touch with both sides of themselves, but do not require male sexual intercourse.
any gays reading this, i am sorry for my lack of understanding something that does not come natural:)
do you realised how many ppl have applied to there.com for beta,?hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
see the big picture and be lucky you got accepted.
I am not saying we owe there anything.the agreement is already signed,what we get from there and what there gets from us is apparent.
I just think some ppl should lighten up and stop trying to run there,it is not your cake even if you do have a slice.
no offense. 
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CrystalShard
Members
380
Feb. 2003
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I hereby pose a challenge to the forum:
Lets try to ignore SmokeTheFly's 'intresting' section of the post and remain on-topic. As tempting as it is to post a flaming reply, it will only drag us away from the Revolution thread discussion which is quite intresting and also important.
So lets make an effort please. Thanks ahead.
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Rayce
Members
789
Feb. 2003
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I agree CrystalShard and am trying my hardest not to post a response to those statements.
The Revolution Continues? ........ ...just call me Number 2
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SmokeTheFly
Members
79
June 2003
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lol,but that is all u have to offer to this thread?
u never even discussed the revolution,just merely insulted me...
and yes, I do believe that my input is important.so pls do not ask ppl to ignore me 
just because i summarised does not mean to say that i am conclusive.
I hope that we can communicate on a better level next time.
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Rayce
Members
789
Feb. 2003
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it was your "gay little interlude" there that CS was refering to
much less has been known to frequently derail threads and the last 3 posts as well as this one are a perfect example
Back on topic... ...just call me Number 2
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The_White_Light
Members
1111
Mar. 2003
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Hey Fs, I agree that it's a bummer we can't use signs and ramps and stuff to build anymore, but what I really think There needs to do is work on some sort of building program in There, where people can construct things with specified objects, and probably within specified areas. The sign limit should really stay intact I believe, as it has greatly reduced the massive amounts of clutter we see. If they give us something other than signs to build with, we won't need to drop dozens of them. There Catalog
Art
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WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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I still fail to see any plan for an organised revolution nor how one, however organised, will affect change in There. If Phedre or anyone would care to enlighten me, catch me in-world or whatever. I don't think along the same "doom and gloom" lines as many others on this thread seem to, but I do agree that there needs to be a pretty massive content boost in addition to some reasonably thought out economic tweaks. I have full confidence in ThereInc. up to this point, really, but do stress the need to maintain a steady flow of new content. Many of you, I think, forget my failed tree-sit, and, strangely, I seem the same people who criticised me then (DSX for example) lauding the disorganised idealisations of revolution here. Bizarre. I suppose if I had been female, cute, and had such a sunny disposition, things may have been different.
WaterSign
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Phedre
Members
121
Jan. 2003
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Viva le revolution!
Yes the revolution still lives, and is being organised as you write your complaints here. That you have not seen an active 'siting' yet simply means we are still in the process of gathering momentum and strength. I have contacted and am in discussions with many designers and long time Therians to encourage their thoughts and feedback. (One cannot really have a revolution on one’s own.) I have asked them to write them in the official There Forums as well, as i ask all of you who read this thread here too. This is where the revolution has begun. We need momentum and healthy discourse in order for this idea to either thrive or perish.
Watersign, while i applauded your Treesit and the sentiments behind it. To be frank, I could understand There not caring that you sat in a tree to protest. However, I do see them caring if we bring the burgeoning economy to halt or something close to it. I want to remind There and the people that we, the people, do have power and that we could use it.
As for action, if many are in agreement, there will be some. Watch the auctions. Miss P
:::make me your sin:::
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WaterSign
Members
562
Feb. 2003
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Well, as I said previously, you can feel free to count me in once I see signs of organisation and a list of suggestions. I somehow doubt anything would go anywhere without even jsut a generalised suggestion for a solution.
WaterSign
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