mike_sherov
Members
29
June 2003
|
One of the main goals of any society is a search for truth, an answer to the many questions posed by daily life. While in real life many of these questions are left unanswered and chalked up to one deity or another, in a metaverse, the answers are simple: they are there because the computer program dictates them to be there. There are no spiritual questions, or the answers to them are simple. However, if a metaverse is to reflect a society, complete with a real economy, is not religion necessary? Should society's pre-existing religions be brought to There? Or should people fabricate a religion to answer the questions and constants existing within the real world? I guess what I mean is, if a religion is fabricated, is it actually a religion, or just a farce? The economy in There I suppose is real, because economy is basically the expression of need. So therefore, it doesn't require "real" objects. So therefore it is real in of it's definition... but I feel a religion would only be hiding the fact that we already know the answers to questions posed by the existence of There. I contend that in order for a religion to exist in There, it should simply be a higher level code of conduct, and not attempt to 'worship' any deity. I believe the developers would be freaked out anyway if they find users worshipping their creation. Any thoughts? *The True Answer is that there is none*
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SmokeTheFly
Members
79
June 2003
|
perhaps we should seek a clarity within our perception and tells others our thoughts what evr thay may be,eventually on a scale a picture would be built that would fit the minsets of those who play there.
To look past the superficial as we must in there and to search deep within ourselves the truth that is really there.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Daemona
Members
994
Feb. 2003
|
Well some people have taken to debating what the avatars g0d and There_Monitor really are and what their diety status is in There. It's all pretty silly to me tho. Remember kids...Jesus saves! Cuz he shops my auctions! Only the devil would pay full price  Sin like you mean it!
"I love the life but I never sold my soul" {Kid Rock}
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/mafioso/pics.html
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike_sherov
Members
29
June 2003
|
It depends on what your definition of silly is. Some would say paying real money for non-real world items such as clothing is silly. Some say discussion of religion in a metaverse is silly. The point, IMHO, is whether or not "religion" can exist in a fictional setting. As Smokethefly points out it would very well develop naturally, as does competition in the There market economy. Case in point: Even in this discussion, you chose to drop a marketing plug. The thing is that the There money translates to real money, where as There religion would serve no "real" purpose. However, etiquette and such serves no real purpose and it seemed to develop naturally in fictional settings (i.e. Netiquette 'please no caps... it's considered shouting). The only "real" purpose to religion, IMHO, is the betterment of society, and in that respect, I can see religion developing in There. FOr example, I envision a cult whose purpose is to not only teach the There world to newbies, but to also explain the etiquette of said society. Perhaps these good works would earn members robed bargs (given to them at base manufacturing cost) and build a sense of community *NOT* involving domination in the market nor domination within paintball or the like. Just a thought. Thanks for the replies though everyone. I am not necessarily a spiritual man myself, but when I finally do get in There, I hope to become one (within the realm of There.) I believe a religious experience will be a rewarding element to the overall game experience. I will, however, never force my beliefs on another Therian. *The True Answer is that there is none*
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kingpin
Members
10
June 2003
|
I look at it this way ... if everyone in There just worshipped me and sent me.. oh, say 100TB a week, I'd be all benevolent in return. Or something.  
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike_sherov
Members
29
June 2003
|
I guess it's my fault for trying to bring up a relevant discussion
Either way, I will be benevolent pro-bono *The True Answer is that there is none*
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lynn Minmei
Members
384
Mar. 2003
|
| Quote (mike_sherov @ June 27 2003, 9:54 pm) | I guess it's my fault for trying to bring up a relevant discussion
Either way, I will be benevolent pro-bono |
I'm pro-bono too...
he shoulda dumped Cher a LONG time ago  "Life is only what we choose to make it, let's just take it, let us be free...
We can find the glory we all dream of... and with our love... we can win"
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rayce
Members
789
Feb. 2003
|
It would depress me greatly if RL religion was to enter There.  ...just call me Number 2
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grimm
Members
263
May 2003
|
Heh - you might find this a bit comical, but I actually thought that Jopy was a There-created deity when I first landed on the rock. I mean, the signs were everywhere, and did kind of fit into a sort of cartoony, tiki-ish atmosphere. I actually remember trying to read as many of those things as I could - until I found the forums lol
I actually find it kind of interesting to see the community develop within There. I love seeing the reactions when There_Monitor decides to show up on Ootay instead of the side of Nene, and is immediately surrounded with a pile of offerings  I think there is already a religeon or two being born here, just from the need to believe. Either that, or it comes from a need to see what happens when you throw the masses a table scrap. Either way, people are starting to formulate their own beliefs about the unexplained, as people have always done.
I wonder what we're gonna come up with this time? 
|
| Back to top |
|
|
UnkleBob
Members
317
April 2003
|
Well coincidently we started a religion around G0D yesterday!
Alicia and me started the Who_is_G0D?  club.
I put up the Ten Commandments of There on G0D's cloud with the Book of Creation next to it. More Books will follow soon.
All in good fun of course and none of it too serious. I invite everyone to come check it out or join the club if they are curious. Unklebob "un-kull-BOB" : More sexiness than you can shake a stick at.
Wow, those tattoos are soo Unklebob.
(from www.urbandictionary.com )
|
| Back to top |
|
|
S0ylentK
Members
5
June 2003
|
| Quote | | Well some people have taken to debating what the avatars g0d and There_Monitor really are and what their deity status is in There. It's all pretty silly to me tho. |
Yer think
I’d hate to get into a discussion about a real life religions because people inevitably bring there prejudices to the table, but at lest having a virtual deity you can explore new ideas.
and even be silly.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CrystalShard
Members
380
Feb. 2003
|
Mike: In regards to your initial question:
There is no need to create a There religion, or worship anything in There. There is an communication system. It is not an alternative life, or a world that you can live at, or anything of such. It is a communication system with 3D graphics and some added fun benefits such as the intrest of ballancing a virtual economy with stuff you want to own/do inside the world. It is nothing but a communication system with additional entertainment values. Thats it.
Talking about bringing religion into There is like talking about bringing religion into your local cellphone community or USENET discussion group - that is, it is all pretty irrelevent.
The "There community" has no unanswered questions that require religion simply because the community is a group of people who uses There to communicate, without obscuring their current real life which do have their own beliefs/etc'. Since its all based on the fact that these people allready "have a life", there are no new questions that require new answers in total.
And on the more humoristic side: I'd say the best example for any virtual religion in There would be the current followship after the great and faceless There_Monitor.
She 0wnz j00.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rayce
Members
789
Feb. 2003
|
| Quote (CrystalShard @ June 28 2003, 8:12 am) | | And on the more humoristic side: I'd say the best example for any virtual religion in There would be the current followship after the great and faceless There_Monitor. |
What? You mean the Holy Church of There Monitor?  ...just call me Number 2
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike_sherov
Members
29
June 2003
|
CrystalShard, while I see where you're coming from... I tend to disagree with your analogy of comparing There to a cellphone community. Do you see cellphone dedicated webpages with a historical catalogue of "firsts"? There is essentially a communication system, this is true. But beyond that, it has mechanisms that facilitate more than just that. It is a term called a "mirror world". While it is no where like real life, it contains many facets of real life things within it. And There is probably more complex, while at the same time open-ended (except for GNE, but that isn't as immersive as There) than most things ever created so far in this realm of gaming/computing. That's probably the reason the Department of Defense signed There Inc. to make anti-terrorism situations software... because of There's (and games like it) unique ability... to test real world situations without the real consequences (info taken from Discovery Magazine and Spliff's reference to MSNBC.com's article: How to Fix Iraq Online. thanks). With that being said, Crystal, you're right. There is no NEED to worship anything in There. Just like there is no NEED to purchase new There clothing for your avatar. But I bet a lot of people are banking on the fact that there is a WANT for clothing. Just like some people would WANT to form a new set of ideals for themselves and perhaps can find it in There. The thing is, if people feel un-religious in their real life, perhaps they can take solace in a digital one, where it would be much easier to uphold the principles of said religion. Either way, thanks for your thoughts Crystal, I always welcome a difference of opinion, no matter how adamantly I may seem to oppose it. I just think metaverses will be the next big killer app like the hype says, and I have fun discussing them. *The True Answer is that there is none*
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Krysss
Members
61
May 2003
|
Mike
You put that very well indeed, I would be interested to hear more of what you have to say..
Krysss Krysss in There, not bothering to post here anymore as all threads seem to get completely off topic within the first page or two....
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike_sherov
Members
29
June 2003
|
Krysss, the only problem I have is that I'm not in There yet  . But when I do get in there, I want to start a psuedo-religion. Events such as sermons (of course, not worshipping any diety, just a way to carry yourself) I believe can be a valid part of There. If you thought you were bored before, here come virtual sermons! LOL... but honestly, I would like to start up something like that. There are many avatars in There, and I do believe that as long as real people are behind them, any digital world can have a religion. While others may think its silly, that's fine. Religion for some, economics for some. My only concern as I stated before I that I feel like I would be fooling myself by trying to fabricate a religion... or trying to start something unnaturally. But I feel as long as I speak from the heart and adhere to my real world principles, maybe those ideas can carry across to There. Krysss, have you heard of any religious type things in There yet, assuming you are already in There? Something like a non-profit organization or something? Sorry for being long-winded... it's just my nature. *The True Answer is that there is none*
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Krysss
Members
61
May 2003
|
I understand what you are saying. I like to know about what drives people, and the things they think shape them. I will be attending your sermons once you are in There.
I don't quite know how to put this, but being spiritual is not about dogma, and ....er.... oh I forgot, this is There and not to get too deep... 
I find the best way to discuss these points is just to get out There and talk to everyone I can. It is very clear VERY early on who is willing to talk of these things and who is in it for the latest t-shirt. I've found quite a few, non-fashion slaves.
I have a club which is for speaking about such things, and people that want to, would know what it means, so no chance of the trendies in There getting signed up..
Krysss Krysss in There, not bothering to post here anymore as all threads seem to get completely off topic within the first page or two....
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike_sherov
Members
29
June 2003
|
I have nothing against trendies... do what you gotta do. I even welcome any "trendies" (I hate labeling people) to have any discussion. I can talk on subjects like fashion, however, I do prefer theory, conjecture, and perhaps discovery... which is not to say that "trendies" don't talk on such subjects. When I finally get in There though, Krysss, my avatar name will be "mike_sherov", so I'll try to find you guys. Just let me know the club name.
P.S. Is your avatar wearing a father's collar? If so, you wouldn't happen to be one in real life, would you? *The True Answer is that there is none*
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vikio
Members
627
June 2003
|
 |
June 30 2003, 1:08 pm |
|
A new World, you say? With an opportunity for a brand new religion? Well then, I say we should all worship Bokononism...for more information, see "Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut.
It's the only good religion I know of. Because It was made up! YAY!  Never Knows Best...
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike_sherov
Members
29
June 2003
|
Vikio, aren't all religions made up?
"Live by the foma that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy."
Book 1 : Verse 5 of the Books of Bokonon
Foma (n): "harmless untruths" or "Lies" often in reference to religion. *The True Answer is that there is none*
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mystic_1
Members
17
Mar. 2003
|
Bokononism seems appropos, as There has already apparently suffered the effects of Ice-9.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Balieyes
Members
37
April 2003
|
this is all very interesting too say the least, I think on many levels one can gather a common mantra to live by, but a duality of both spirituality and ritual practices are alot too ask of people sometimes, even on online gaming.
so i leave you with this -
There is unfamiliarity with the knowledge that when one line is applied with faith it becomes a deeply emotional act and is able to reveal to us dimensions that can only be magnified in the human heart. It saddens me that so few of us are willing to surrender intellect, initiate exploration of the abstract and unlock the pathways that counterpoint realities invisible to the human eye, these are the pathways of the olive branch and a common understanding that can not be taught. I encourage you to seek to express that, which faith reveals... depths essential to us understanding what and who we are... depths that can not be fathomed by mathematical equations.
I encourage you to hold on to the belief that what you desire to express is as worth while as you are. In the lightest or darkest hours of these meditations seek solace in the familiar soul fabric that is capable of discerning the truth in you, this reality will not only save your life but it will keep you sane. It is significant that the wordless utterances of the heart remain incorruptible by intellect, as they seek tirelessly to resolve the puzzle that denies us from the simplicity that so willingly gives us when it is our will to communicate.
Works without faith are vanity. As we come to understand the properties that are integral to this balance, we become more familiar with a dialogue that is unique to each individuals unformulated desire to be intimate and reveal without fear the heart journey. This in its raw reflective or deflective state is Art.
In its absolute state it denies human logic and can only be measured by sensibility. As Artists these are the absolutes by which we must stand, they are only definable upon contemplation and must be guarded from the machinery that leads us away from interpreting them, or we will be at risk of devaluing their significance to our growth and to a growth that is significant to contemporary society.
We must not allow ourselves to be robbed of these integral developments that can only be attained through an unselfish immaterial willingness to seek passionately the value and depth of those things that can only be realized through trust.
We must guard the works that we observe willingly with soul and ears that are expressed from the heart. Now is when we learn, now is when we make choices and now is when we will into existence through faith that which we choose to grow in. I will continue to travel upon the effortless absolutes of the hearts pathways because they defy the calculations that bring mediocrity....
~Balieyes
[Bali-E-Eyes]
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
